Options
New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
- New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
-
New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-03 08:57
Welcome to this new beta phase. The main purpose is to test new code protecting against delays caused by offline network drives. The main cause for delays long enough to let users think QAP is frozen is when an offline network drive contains favorites (folders or files) in the QAP menu. You can read more about this here: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?
Version BETA: 11.0.6.9.1 (2020-11-03)
Avoid delays caused by network drives offline
- new option under "Options, Menu Advanced Options" to specify that network drives with UNC path ("\\...") or with drive letters (see below) are always online (disabled by default)
- new option under "Options, Menu Advanced Options" to specify what drive letters are assigned to network drives that could be temporarily offline
- avoid an unexpected delays when refreshing dynamic menus by not checking if a file exist or if it has a custom icon for favorites saved on a network drive that could be offline (dynamic menus are: "Frequent Folders", "Frequent Files", "Recent Folders" and "Recent Files")
- when refreshing the "Drives" menu (under "My QAP Essentials"), avoid retrieving label and free space for drive letters assigned to network drives that could be offline (see above)
- see Network drive help: https://www.quickaccesspopup.com/can-i-c...rk-drives/ (to be updated after this beta test)
See updated downloads link below. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.1 - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-06 17:27
Version BETA: 11.0.6.9.2 (2020-11-06)
- expand environment variables and user variables like %temp% or {Dropbox} before checking if a favorite is on a network drive
See updated downloads link below.
Thanks. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-08 04:50
Sorry if this is covered somewhere, but I overlooked it, but:
What is the syntax for the field: "Drive letters for network drives" under "Menus Advanced Options"?
Regards,
joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 08:32
You just enter the letters, no colon or separators needed. If you enter them, QAP will strip them. Also with v11.0.6.9.2, QAP will convert letters to upper case.
I'll mention that when I'll update https://www.quickaccesspopup.com/can-i-c...rk-drives/
Thanks. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-08 10:18
Observations v.11.0.6.9.2 Beta
Version: QAP v.11.0.6.9.2 x64 Portable
File Manager: Directory Opus v.12.22 Pro x64 ("DOpus") and Windows 10 File Explorer ("Explorer")
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64 2004, Server 2016 Core, Server 2019 Core.
Observation, possible bug?
Customize --> File --> "Open QAP Settings Folder"
This menu choice seems not to work when QAP use an INI file outside the QAP folder.
Example:
With DOpus it just goes to C:\.Code:C:\Configs\QAP\QuickAccessPopup-64-bit.exe /Settings:C:\Configs\INI-files\QAP-%computername%.ini
With Explorer it goes to the folder where the QAP exe is (C:\Configs\QAP\ in the example above), so the menu text is maybe a little ambiguous?
Same behaviour with v.11.0.5 and v.11.0.6.1 so this is not a (possible) bug with this beta only.
Testing v.11.0.6.9.2 beta
* This is only tested with the "Drives" function since I don't use the Recent/Frequent thingy in Windows.
* The "Drives" function is added to the top level menu on all 4 machines.
* All installations of QAP runs locally from the C drive and with an INI file in the same folder as the EXE.
* All test machines are logged on and QAP is running.
Tested on:
Windows 10 Pro x64 2004 (with 9 network drives mapped on 8 different hosts, including the file share for Shared Menus).
Windows 10 Pro x64 2004 (with 1 network drive mapped, file share for Shared Menus).
Windows Server 2016 Standard (Core) (with 1 network drive mapped, file share for Shared Menus).
Windows Server 2019 Standard (Core) (with 1 network drive mapped, file share for Shared Menus).
Test 1
QAP setting
No change, just oppgraded from v.11.0.5 or v.11.0.6.1.
The "Drive letters for network drives" field is blank.
The "Network drives are always online" checkbox is not checked.
Result
1. Two hosts are set offline. Including the one with the Shared Menus file share.
2. QAP becomes "unstable"/non-responsive as before. This, I assume, is expected behaviour.
3. The hosts are set online and QAP recovers and works as normal.
Test 2
QAP setting
Exceptions are added to the "Drive letters for network drives" for the affected drives.
The "Network drives are always online" checkbox is not checked.
Result
1. The drives in the exception list are now flagged as "Network drive" and the icon changes to a disk in the "Drives" function.
2. Two hosts are set offline. Including the one with the Shared Menus file share.
3. QAP now seem to work as normal, no delays.
4. The Shared Menus seems to work as normal (you can "browse" the menus).
4.1 Clicking on a favourite in the Shared Menu that points to a local resource seems to work as normal.
4.2 Clicking on a favourite in the Shared Menu that points to a remote resource (on the network drive that is offline) seems to send QAP in to some kind of undefined tailspin and it becomes unresponsive for a while.
QAP then displays the message: "An error occurred while trying to open this favourite. Please try again...." and after that it is impossible to bring up the menu by clicking on the icon in systray. The right-click system menu works.
5. The hosts are set online and QAP recovers and works as normal.
Test 3
QAP setting
Exceptions are added to the "Drive letters for network drives" for the affected drives.
The "Network drives are always online" checkbox is checked.
Result
1. The drives in the exception list are not flagged as "Network drive", the icon changes back to the "network" icon in the "Drives" function.
2. Two hosts are set offline. Including the one with the Shared Menus file share.
3. QAP becomes "unstable"/non-responsive as in Test 1
4. The hosts are set online and QAP recovers and works as normal.
Remarks
I did not restart QAP or the test machines between tests.
The "Network drives are always online" option seems somewhat redundant since the behaviour of QAP looks for all practical purposes to be the same.
An exception list for unreliable network drives seems to be sufficient.
But, as stated above, I do not use the Frequent/Recent functions so this setting may have a purpose there?
Regard,
joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 11:35
(2020-11-08 10:18)joeNOR Wrote: Observations v.11.0.6.9.2 Beta
Version: QAP v.11.0.6.9.2 x64 Portable
File Manager: Directory Opus v.12.22 Pro x64 ("DOpus") and Windows 10 File Explorer ("Explorer")
OS: Windows 10 Pro x64 2004, Server 2016 Core, Server 2019 Core.
Observation, possible bug?
Customize --> File --> "Open QAP Settings Folder"
This menu choice seems not to work when QAP use an INI file outside the QAP folder.
Example:
With DOpus it just goes to C:\.Code:C:\Configs\QAP\QuickAccessPopup-64-bit.exe /Settings:C:\Configs\INI-files\QAP-%computername%.ini
With Explorer it goes to the folder where the QAP exe is (C:\Configs\QAP\ in the example above), so the menu text is maybe a little ambiguous?
Same behaviour with v.11.0.5 and v.11.0.6.1 so this is not a (possible) bug with this beta only.
The "/Settings:" command line parameter change the location where the quickaccesspopup.ini file is loaded instead of the file in the folder where QAP is launched (assuming here that QAP is used in portable mode (from the ZIP file).
The folder where QAP is launched is named "QAP settings folder" or "working directory". The menu "File, Open QAP Settings Folder" opens this folder, regardless of the "/Settings:" parameter.
To change the "QAP settings folder", you could use the "/Working:" parameter (but it is not necessarily what you want to do in your situation). With this parameter, the "QAP settings folder" command opens correctly the working folder.
Available command line parameters are described here:
https://www.quickaccesspopup.com/what-co...able-file/
> With Explorer it goes to the folder where the QAP exe is (C:\Configs\QAP\ in the example above), so the menu text is maybe a little ambiguous?
> With DOpus it just goes to C:\.
I had various results testing this with this beta release and older releases. In some case, the "Open QAP Settings Folder" menu opened the user default folder (C:\Users\UserName) instead if the QAP folder with both Explorer and DOpus. And some times, it opened the working folder correctly. I'll investigate this.
I'll be back for the rest of your post about network drives.
Thanks. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 12:20
> Test 1
Expected behaviour.
> Test 2
Expected behaviour. We can assume that Shared menus are save on a safe drive.
> QAP then displays the message: "An error occurred while trying to open this favourite. Please try again...." and after that it is impossible to bring up the menu by clicking on the icon in systray. The right-click system menu works.
I would prefer if the menu would stay available. But this is a pretty unusual situation.
> Test 3
Also expected behaviour.
> The "Network drives are always online" option seems somewhat redundant since the behaviour of QAP looks for all practical purposes to be the same.
> An exception list for unreliable network drives seems to be sufficient.
> But, as stated above, I do not use the Frequent/Recent functions so this setting may have a purpose there?
The "Network drives are always online" option has an effect. In your test 2 (checkbox not checked), "3. QAP now seem to work as normal, no delays". If the checkbox was checked, you would have delays (at least if you have items in Frequent menus coming from the network drives.
---
Another beta users reported by email that the network drives options are working well. I'll draft the new FAQ page on network drives and post it here for your comments.
Thanks for the detailed report. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-08 12:21
That is why I called it a possible bug.
But, to me the "QAP settings folder" is the folder where the settings of QAP is, regardless of where the exe file is.
With the /Settings switch I change the settings folder to something else, hence my slight confusion about that menu choice.
Btw, the tests I did is not a bug report, it is just observations regarding the behaviour of QAP in certain conditions.
If they are regarded as bugs, possible feature improvements or QAP working as expected, I have no opinions at this point. That is obviously your call to make.
-joeNOR
But, a question.
There is no practical difference between Test 1 and Test 3.
Why keep the checkbox?
What makes a difference is the exclusion list in Test 2. If I remove that, or mark the checkbox, the result is the same as I see it?
If I wanted to set QAP in "network drives always online" mode, I would just remove the exclusions, not keep them (or remove them) and then check an additional box. Kinda confused here.......
Sorry, not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the difference.
-joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 15:56
> There is no practical difference between Test 1 and Test 3.
In Test 1, the "Drive letters for network drives" field is blank. The delay is caused by drive letters not being flagged as network drives.
In Test 3, the "Network drives are always online" checkbox is checked. In this case, all drives are fetched regardless of the exceptions. In fact, the exceptions are not considered if you enable the "always online" option. I could make it clearer by disabling the exception list when "always online" is checked. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 15:58
You can review the new version of the Can I create favorites on network drives? FAQ page. This temporary page will replace the actual page when v11.0.7 is released. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-08 17:43
Thanks for the answers!
I still think this is a very confusing setting.
If the "Drive letters for network drives" is blank then the checkbox makes no difference, it is a "null" setting.
If the "Drive letters for network drives" is not blank then the checkbox overrides it, why not remove the exceptions in the first place? It's like making exception rules in a firewall, then making a rule to negate them, you normally don't do that, you remove the exceptions.
(Alternatively, make a checkbox to actively enable the exceptions list).
But maybe it is me just being slow (it happens), and this is crystal clear for everyone else...
-joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-08 18:39
> If the "Drive letters for network drives" is blank then the checkbox makes no difference, it is a "null" setting.
I'll try to put it differently:
If "Always online" is not checked and "Drive letters for network drives" is blank
-> then all drive letters will be considered as local drives and QAP will not apply offline drives protection on these drives
If "Always online" is not checked and "Drive letters for network drives" contains letters
-> these drives will be considered as "\\" network paths and protected against offline state
If "Always online" is checked
-> QAP will not apply any offline drives protection for "\\" paths or drive letters. In this case, the "Drive letters for network drives" list is irrelevant and will be disabled (grayed out) when the "Always online" is checked. Hoping this makes it a bit more clear.
> But maybe it is me just being slow (it happens), and this is crystal clear for everyone else...
:-) I don't think this is an easy one for anybody. If anyone has a better way to put this, your welcome. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-09 00:08
Thanks!
I do understand the settings very well I think.
Consider this thought experiment:
Remove the checkbox and let the exclusion list be the only way to tell QAP to ignore certain letters.
(This is a list purely to insulate QAP from drives going offline, the only "protection" is QAP protecting itself )
Fill that list or clear it, and the practical effect will be exactly the same.
Btw, regarding "-> then all drive letters will be considered as local drives", the OS tells anyone who asks, the ProviderName so this is easy to check for automatically, see attached screenshot
But, I'll shut up now (this is my last post in this thread, I promise), probably boring both you and the community to tears by now!
-joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
LaurentG > 2020-11-09 03:41
(2020-11-09 00:08)joeNOR Wrote: Consider this thought experiment:
Remove the checkbox and let the exclusion list be the only way to tell QAP to ignore certain letters.
(This is a list purely to insulate QAP from drives going offline, the only "protection" is QAP protecting itself )
Fill that list or clear it, and the practical effect will be exactly the same.
Hi Joe,
what you propose is not enough !
Network resources can be identified
either with their UNC, in the form \\{hostname}\{resourcename}\{subfolder}...
OR can be mounted with a drive letter
The check box is necessary in case there are "not mounted" network resources, used only with their UNC, if we want to ask QAP to process them "efficiently" in case they can be "away"
Hi Jean,
since the box is the "key" to specific behaviour, and letter list "only" its parameterization, it looks to me it would be a little bit more clear if in the dialog, the check box is above, and the list of letters below (and as you propose, greyed when the box is checked). Currently, letter list is above, and box below.
Moreover, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be even clearer to "inverse" the check-box, and to have its caption "Check this box if Network Resources may be sometimes offline".
Of course, if my proposal is retained, default value should be to have the box checked, and the letter list has to be greyed when the box in unchecked.... -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-09 03:51
Hi!
Thanks, I see that I was a little bit unclear in my previous post.
My point is the exceptions list, the way this now works, all exceptions must be listed for QAP to ignore them.
This is regardless of the resource being a letter or an UNC.
Further this can be solved in two ways, either by specifying each exception, and/or support for wildcards or regex (this is probably most useful for UNC, ie ignore all resources at \\SomeServer\*)
So, I don't see how my proposal isn't enough.
The checkbox work directly opposite to your description, it forces QAP to assume that all network resources are always online.
And this, for all practical reasons is the same as having no exceptions in the list.
-joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-09 08:55
@Joe: Maybe your conclusions are based on the fact that you do not use the Frequent/Recent menus?
@Laurent:
> since the box is the "key" to specific behaviour, and letter list "only" its parameterization, it looks to me it would be a little bit more clear if in the dialog, the check box is above, and the list of letters below (and as you propose, greyed when the box is checked). Currently, letter list is above, and box below.
Yes, I've done that in my development environment following a previous comment from Joe.
> Moreover, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be even clearer to "inverse" the check-box, and to have its caption "Check this box if Network Resources may be sometimes offline". Of course, if my proposal is retained, default value should be to have the box checked, and the letter list has to be greyed when the box in unchecked....
Good point. I'll do it.
Thanks. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-09 09:05
@Jean: Maybe, but network access is network access. Either the resource is available or it is not.
This is the error I get (after around 20 sec delay in QAP) when trying to access an UNC that is offline, no matter of if the checkbox is selected or not.
The UNC in question is in the exclusion list.
The error says: "The network path was not found."
-joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-09 10:17
Hi Joe,
This is normal. The protection against offline drives in this beta release is there only to avoid unexpected delays when QAP refreshes its menus ("Drives" menu, "Frequent..." and "Recent..." menus). It won't prevent the user trying to open a resource on an offline network drive to see this delay.
Jean -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-09 13:40
Version BETA: 11.0.6.9.3 (2020-11-09)
- reverse checkbox options from "drive are always online" to "drive can sometimes be offline"
- disable drive letters list if option "drive can sometimes be offline" is unchecked
- standardise network drive letter to uppercase and save only letters
- fix bug when location has no drive (like "notepad.exe")
Download link:
You can download this beta release here (it will use the same license code you already have for your regular release):
(link removed - this beta test is now over) -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-10 12:11
@Jean
Yeah, while I very much respect what you choose to do with QAP, and I will never question that, I do highly disagree (no surprise there ) with the approach to this particular feature.
If anyone of my developers (in my RL job) suggested this, I would kill it, and go for an error handling approach.
This function in QAP is basically flawed, but this is not a big deal for me since I never gonna use it anyway.
I'll drop out of any further discussions from here since it is just a matter of totally different opinions, and my posts would just create noise.
Regards,
joeNOR -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-10 12:31
Hi joeNOR,
I think this solution achieves the objective that is here to eliminate unexpected delays while QAP does background tasks. But I respect your opinion. No offense :-)
Jean -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
joeNOR > 2020-11-10 14:00
No offence, we have been talking all the way back to "Folder" days...
-J -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
LaurentG > 2020-11-10 15:26
Hi Jean and Joe,
I agree with Jean that this evolution is a real enhancement for QAP... but I also agree with Joe that the way it's done is not really satisfying.
Isn't it possible to imagine another approach, completely different, in which the refresh of menus and frequent database would be run really "in background", ie. in a completely separate process or thread, in such a way that it has no impact on the main process (and then do not "freeze" it while running, as it is the case today).
If no freeze of main QAP application while refreh is running (and then QAP remain "responding"), it's no more an issue if this refresh takes sometimes longer than usual.
While current approach is : since QAP freezes during refresh, let's do all we can to make this refresh always very fast.
I have clearly no idea if it is feasible using AHK, but if it was the case, it could provide a supplementary advantage : This second process/thread could then share in the generated menu the information that this disk, this files and/or this folder is not accessible at the last refresh time.
I obviously propose that current approach is deployed, at least in a first step, since I repeat, it's a great enhancement for people that have local network resources that are frequently up and down.
But if you can investigate, Jean, feasability of this second approach, it coud be deployed in a second step. -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-10 16:44
> Isn't it possible to imagine another approach, completely different, in which the refresh of menus and frequent database would be run really "in background", ie. in a completely separate process or thread, in such a way that it has no impact on the main process (and then do not "freeze" it while running, as it is the case today).
...
> I have clearly no idea if it is feasible using AHK
The thread refreshing the menu and the background thread that refreshes the database are different threads. But, as explained in the AHK doc, it is not truly a multithreaded environment:
Quote:Although AutoHotkey doesn't actually use multiple threads, it simulates some of that behavior: If a second thread is started -- such as by pressing another hotkey while the previous is still running -- the current thread will be interrupted (temporarily halted) to allow the new thread to become current.
https://www.autohotkey.com/docs/misc/Threads.htm
> I obviously propose that current approach is deployed, at least in a first step, since I repeat, it's a great enhancement for people that have local network resources that are frequently up and down. But if you can investigate, Jean, feasability of this second approach, it coud be deployed in a second step.
This is what I'll do. I'll release v11.0.7 with its improvements. Then I'll put it aside for some time just to rest a bit from this and work on some new features. And I'll revisit this issue later, if whenever something can be done within AHK capabilities.
Thanks for your help and feedback to both of you.
Jean -
RE: New beta release v11.0.6.9.n - Preventing delays when network drives are offline
Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-11 07:33
(2020-11-11 06:25)LaurentG Wrote:
(2020-11-10 16:44)Jean Lalonde Wrote: The thread refreshing the menu and the background thread that refreshes the database are different threads. But, as explained in the AHK doc, it is not truly a multithreaded environment:
Maybe (...?) an approach could be to have two completely distinct processes.
A new independent process would be in charge of refreshing the menu, and updates the DB could, generating a file with all menu entries (inc. live folders sub levels, inc. frequent and recent, inc. Disks list)
And the "main" QAP would have "only" to get these lists (readig the files generated by the other process) but being freed of task to elaborate them....
I created a new entry in the wishlist about this. For future discussion.
Thanks.