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Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

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  • Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?
• Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

• Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2020-10-07 09:09

  Hi,
  
  This is a recurring question on the forum. You can find various threads on the forum about issues related to the QAP menu not showing instantly as it normally does. I compiled answers and solutions to these issues in this FAQ page.
  
  Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?
  
  As I wrote in the page, we will add more safety code and new options in the next QAP releases, trying to prevent, in not eliminate, these delays. To be kept informed of these developments, subscribe to this thread (click Subscribe to this thread at the bottom of the page) and do not hesitate to jump in the discussion right here.
  
  Thanks for your help,
  
  Jean

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  joeNOR > 2020-10-07 15:12

  Hi!
  
  A page that sums up/explains the different "variations" of this behavior is a good thing for new and old users alike.
  A very useful reference.
  
  But, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and probably become very unpopular in the process.
  
  My thoughts:
  
  1. This is not a QAP problem
  This is a problem with unavailable or unreliable network resources.
  In my VMware lab QAP itself is not even installed locally, but runs from a network drive. There are never any problems as long as the file server is up and running.
  
  2. Complex error handling
  Implementing some complex error handling to compensate for the normal delay/timeout of the operating system and an unknown number of variations where this delay can possibly occur? It just seems counter intuitive to me. Some simple and fast error check, and a big "red button" in QAP settings that says "disable network support" is imho the way to go.
  ....or possibly only the red button! QAP behaves as expected when there is a timeout/delay in the "subsystem" (the OS).
  
  I use a metric ton of applications, tools and utilities, from typical end-user applications to command line tools.
  All of them can connect to or use network resources in one shape or another, and ALL of them are affected by a delay when an expected network resource is unavailable.
  Try running (s)ftp or ssh and try to connect to an online host that doesn't run a ftp or ssh server, you get a timeout, as expected.
  Try running a logon script that tries to connect to non-existent network drives, you get a timeout.
  
  Tools, applications and systems designed to operate under high latency or unstable network conditions is another ball game entirely.
  
  3. Number of users affected
  How many of the total number of QAP-users are really affected by this?
  Or is this just a question of easily available information as linked to in the original post here?
  Unmounting/disconnecting offline network drives makes this whole thing a non-issue.
  
  4. The Exception - The Drives function
  The Drives-function is maybe the only exception as it demonstrably goes nuts when network drives that are mapped by the operating system are offline.
  That function should probably be fixed, ie the constant triggering.
  But removing the delay? Maybe not, this is an error condition after all. Unmounting the drives solves this.
  
  
  Just my $0.02, and a long rant (sorry about that).
  I'll now put on my crash helmet and wait for the storm!
  
  Regards,
  joeNOR

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Horst > 2020-10-07 15:16

  I fully agree with joeNOR

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2020-10-09 15:06

  Hi,
  
  Thanks for your input about this topic. I appreciate it and agree that this is not a QAP problem.
  
  As I see it, there are different types of network drive users. On one end, there is the corporate system administrator with all his tools, alerts, etc. with the priority to maintain its server online 99.99% of the time. On the other end, there is the home user who creates network drives to exchange files or make backups between his desktop PC and one or two portable PCs. For this second type of user, it is normal for the portable computers to be away, closed or offline. These users do not have the same level of expertise on how to maintain their network connections. And, as we see regularly on this forum, users wonder why the QAP menu does not respond as quickly as it usually does and would not necessarily associate the issue to their network configuration.
  
  As an application developer, my priority is to avoid errors that would crash the app or make it unusable. For example, if there was no error trapping in QAP, each time you move, delete or rename a favorite folder, document or application, trying to open it from the QAP menu would display an error message with incomprehensible technical info and quit QAP. To avoid this, I always check if the file exists before trying to open/launch a favorite. I apply the same logic when trying to prevent/avoid the delay caused by an offline drive. This situation is more difficult to trap. But I have some simple ideas that I'll implement in a future release, especially for network folders mapped to a drive letter and the "Drives" menu.
  
  Jean

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  joeNOR > 2020-10-10 02:26

  Thanks for the answer Jean!
  Much appreciated.
  
  I have zero problem seeing your point.
  But, I am (to be honest) a little bit concerned about how you chose to implement that error check.
  
  I absolutely want that delay to happen, and not be hidden away by some error check, because then I know that something is wrong.
  QAP is by no means my only indicator/monitor for errors, but if a command is run, and it seems "fine"..... don't want that, sorry!
  
  The only thing selfish me wants fixed is the constant triggering of the Drives function, it should only trigger when you activate it (but be delayed if a drive is offline).
  And an option to turn off the error check that removes/hides the delay as "global" setting in QAP.
  
  Me, me, me, nagging users is a pain in the.....
  
  Regards,
  joeNOR

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  LaurentG > 2020-10-19 02:20

  Hi joeNOR,
  
  I agree with you when you write that all tools configured to use network are affected by a delay when network resource is no more there, and that no user should be surprised of that.
  
  But the main issue we face with QAP is that it is NOT a tool "dedicated" to network.
  I agree that if there is a network issue, and the user "explicitely" tries to access a network resource with QAP, a delay is not a problem.
  But if the user DO NOT tries to access a network resource, this delay is "un-understandable" (and not really acceptable....)
  
  The originating point of these "network error management" is the "Frequent /Recent Files / folders" :
  This menu is automatically populated.
  If one of these files or folders is on the network, I agree that if you select it in the menu when it is no more available, it is not an issue if QAP takes a +/- long time before failing.
  But on the other hand, it is not understandable, nor acceptable, that automatic refresh of this menu, in the background, makes QAP non responsive (and then not usable) while the user is doing nothing relative to the network.
  
  And it is this kind of issue (and only this kind of issue) that Jean tries to avoid.

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2020-10-19 05:29

  Hi,
  
  This issue is still on my table. I'll be back to it when I am done with the workload coming from the transition to v11.
  
  Jean

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  joeNOR > 2020-10-19 07:57

  Hi LaurentG!
  
  For me it boils down to how, or if, the underlying functions in the OS are used.
  
  Frequent/Recent
  If QAP uses a standard function in Windows then this delay will be in effect for other applications that uses the same function.
  In my opinion this should not be "hidden" by the application calling/using the function.
  
  On the other hand, if QAP does something special, either directly or through the AHK framework, then this should probably be looked into.
  
  Drives
  Here we know that the AHK function (as I understand it) triggers the constant polling of the drives, and it does not "fail gracefully", it locks QAP for the duration.
  This arguably maybe also a single thread vs multi thread problem.
  
  Using network resources or not
  This is case of point of view, as in what is "using network resources"?
  (As I have mentioned elsewhere, on a couple of my machines I run QAP itself from a network drive)
  
  An example, not related to networking:
  I use Directory Opus on a machine connected to two old mechanical USB-drives, aka spindle drives (I haven't gotten around to replacing them with SSDs yet).
  These drives have a power save function that spins them down after some time if they are not in use.
  When accessing the drives after a spin down, Directory Opus freezes for 10-15 sec while waiting for spin up and the ready signal from the OS.
  I would never ask for a setting in DOpus that hides that.
  
  For me it is the same with some of the points discussed regarding QAP.
  
  I guess we just have to agree to disagree on some points, different opinions and viewpoints are perfectly fine by me! 
  In any case, it is Jean who ultimately decides what happens next, no matter how much I yell and scream!
  
  Regards,
  joeNOR

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  LaurentG > 2020-10-19 09:42

  Hi JoeNOR,
  
  about Frequent folders/files, we are in your second choice : There is no delay in "standard" functions of Windows about recent / frequent, delay comes only in special processing done by QAP. Moreover, this delay occurs in the background, and not in answer to a user action. But when it occurs, it prevent user to be able to get an answer to his own action (ie. QAP menu do not display)
  
  Regards
  Laurent

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-03 09:04

  Hi,
  
  I invite you to test this beta release that should prevent delays when network drives are offline:
  https://forum.quickaccesspopup.com/showt...p?tid=1322
  
  This beta release adds two options under the Options, Advanced Menu Options:
  

  • a text field Drive letters for network drives where you can specify the network drives attached to a drive letter
    
  • a checkbox Network drives ("\\" or with with drive letters) are always online that you enable if you are using QAP in an environment where the network drives are always online (except in case of outage, of course)
    

  Thanks.

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2020-11-11 11:27

  The new features described above are now available in this new release.
  
  Version: 11.0.7 (2020-11-11)
  Avoid delays caused by network drives offline
  https://forum.quickaccesspopup.com/showt...p?tid=1341

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  AlexHK > 2021-01-09 02:15

  (2020-11-11 11:27)Jean Lalonde Wrote: The new features described above are now available in this new release.
  
  Version: 11.0.7 (2020-11-11)
  Avoid delays caused by network drives offline
  https://forum.quickaccesspopup.com/showt...p?tid=1341

  
  

  1. Do I assume correctly that we only enter the letters without any comma or space between?i.e. if the letters are X, Y and Z we enter "XYZ"?
     
     
  2. How about mounted drives which may sometimes be available and sometimes not. Say Veracrypt, PGP or Bitlocker drives. A drive that when mounted is available as M: but otherwise no drives is found at M. Do we need to treat them as external network drives that may sometimes be unavailable otherwise resulting in hangs for QAP?
     

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2021-01-09 14:14

  Hi Alex,
  
  >Do I assume correctly that we only enter the letters without any comma or space between?i.e. if the letters are X, Y and Z we enter "XYZ"?
  
  Correct.
  
  > How about mounted drives which may sometimes be available and sometimes not. Say Veracrypt, PGP or Bitlocker drives. A drive that when mounted is available as M: but otherwise no drives is found at M. Do we need to treat them as external network drives that may sometimes be unavailable otherwise resulting in hangs for QAP?
  
  Yes. These drives will be treated as if they *could* be offline, with the risk of error message if trying to launch a favorite from these drives when it *is* offline.
  
  Jean

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  AlexHK > 2021-01-11 02:27

  something wrong posting (from a draft).
  

  ---

  (lets see if this works, I posted from a draft and for some reason every edit would add a lot of newlines and revert back to the saved draft so I am giving up).
  
  
  
  
  Thanks Jean! I truly love QAP! Windows will never be the same again!
  
  I have two little suggestions:
  
  1. Instead of saying "Network drives" can sometimes be offline, I'd use a wording along those lines:
  
  "Drives can sometimes be offline (include network or mounted drives, "\\" or with drive letters)."
  
  (possibly also include USB drives in that wording if QAP needs to know about removable USB drives)
  
  2. In fact I would turn it around, and let the user specify what is considered as fixed drives. Since these seldom change, but mounted drives in fact can and will change often. But this may be just me.
  
  Or have the option:
  
  The following drive letters will be treated as:
  o removable o fixed drives
  [ ]
  
  (like in Popup Menu > Mouse trigger blacklist /whiteliste)
  
  You could then also make it a input box with one per line instead of a small field. Because drives can also be mounted on folders in Windows.
  
  Again, thanks for creating this amazing software.
  
  PS: I tested having a favorite on a mounted drive (K:\test.txt). There was no noticeable delay or hang in QAP when I unmounted the drive. I have the QAP database disabled but I do have a Drives menu though.

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  LaurentG > 2021-01-11 15:14

  Hi Alex,
  
  yes, USB drives may be offline, but even if they are offline, this DO NOT generate the issue of "frozen menu".
  Probably because these drives are better managed by windows itself, and Windows "knows" (as soon as the drive is unplugged) that is is no more existing.
  For this reason, these drives do not need the "special management" developped by Jean, and then do not have to be considered in this new option.

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  Jean Lalonde > 2021-01-12 11:05

  Hi,
  
  Thanks for your suggestions, Alex. At this time, I prefer to keep the option as it is but to improve the text of the help page linked to this option based on comments from Laurent and you (https://www.quickaccesspopup.com/can-i-c...rk-drives/).
  
  Let me know if you think it can be further improved.  
  
  Jean

• RE: Why does QAP sometimes look frozen or takes time to show its popup menu?

  LaurentG > 2021-01-12 14:00

  Hi Jean,
  
  OK for me, especially the paragraph "Note about USB drives and USB keys"
  
  Regards
  Laurent
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